The law is very important to them as a way to honor God, but their rabbis have debated points of the law for centuries, and they dont live in a world where the debater who turns out to be wrong has thereby denied the whole of his faith, like you seem to think Christians do. Here are his words to think about while you play gatekeeper over Hatmaker and the others and this topic. I agree with you, Mike. If Jen Hatmaker was silent on the issue and started loving on homosexuals, nobody would say anything. Original post: The Church is judgmentally and systematically abusing people within the Church for issues that are not central to the Gospel this needs to stop! This is the problem with Rob Bell and the other guy mentioned in the Article. Well, the opposite. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? So I ask, is not healthy religion a figment of the imagination? Slow down and show love to someone that may be hurting. you dont get to decide what sin is, whether public or private. Hey, Im not saying conservative evangelicalism is as bad as Jonestown, but I do know this: once the pack starts circling an identified victim theres very little stopping it. His Holiness Is this the only story out of the Bible that you know? 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others with you, so that at the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. But an encounter with a homeless man who wanted his Texan boots changed all that. Others are not free to dump anything that they have not. May we proclaim the Gospel boldly and may we love with our lives those around us. Jesus calls us to speak the Truth in LOVE (not in bloodthirsty fury). At what point, in your thinking, does the church get involved? So hopefully nobody interprets my misgivings to this article as being a religious bigot. What a terrible way to talk about Good Friday., http://www.holmeslybrand.com/culture/2017/4/21/jen-hatmaker-please-stop. MaintainingContaining I dont know what it is that some of you have eaten but before commenting about a biblical issue perhaps it would serve you well to actually read the bible, brush up a little. Therefore put away from yourselves the evil person. We must do better. The few times PAUL talks about homosexuality, FYI, he either uses the terms that literally mean pedophilia OR they get lumped in with every other sexual act outside of marriage, including STRAIGHT SEX. And she calls herself a Christian!. And Im frankly sick and tired of the broken bodies and lives as a result. My study of the scriptures has helped me come to the conclusion that drinking alcohol is not sin if in moderation. Thats a relief! 1:1-2. I also smoke pipes and cigars occasionally, I feel the same way with this as well. There is a lot of 'behind-the-scenes' drama happening ahead of the 2023 Oscars as Riley Keough and Priscilla Presley are entangled in a legal battle. Paul had no qualms about naming names and confronting false doctrines and false apostles by name in his letters. It was put out publicly by the husband I think on their Facebook page that they felt they were led to believe that as long as a homosexual couple are faithful to one another the its fine just like a normal marriage. When you read Romans 1 and 2 together intelligently as one argument, you see that his whole point is that the people who are judging others are the ones in sin. I belong to a small Baptist denomination in Australia. And Im not sure what youre getting at in regard to child abuse. This is a core gospel issue. Sad. Many are calling it out. But Truth of sin doesnt waver. We cant offer the grace of Christ with a lie attached. Yeah I wonder that too about the changing of the mind. Im so sick of the whole Christian hippie thing. Our campus is more than just a building where we gather on Sundays. And Jesus in Matthew 19:4-5? I do think Christians have adopted some culturally normative communication patterns; engaging in reflexive critique via social media and being far too easily offended, among them. Ahh yes. The building was originally Faith United Methodist Church since 1968 and in January of . BH: Brandon Hatmaker, founding pastor and elder at ANC Actually it is addressed in much of scripture. It was not like that from the beginning. I am so tired of the implication that someone who supports same-sex marriage (or any other cultural buzz issue) is not serious about the Word of God. (implication: she deserves to be shunned and humiliated). Jen Hatmaker and her husband, Brandon, pastor Austin New Church in Texas. My misgiving with this article is whitewashing false teachers, since the subject is not about how to reach and love on homosexuals, but on how to deal with false teachers. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sex sins, and marries another, is guilty of sex sins in marriage. Typos! What eternal truth is she rejecting, exactly? It is sad. There are many of us in the Body that once were insiders that are no longer. If we are gonna be gatekeepers and decide who is in and who is out, why do we ignore so many other passages and only pay attention to the six verses that are considered the clober verses. All your big words back there managed to give the vague impression that it was an actual denial of the Gospel. Over the wall you go, Rob Bell. If a sweet grandmother comes walking out of church and I kick her in the shins, she will probably react. 15 If your brother sins, go and show him his fault when the two of you are alone. A Loving response: Youre right this issue is important to me, but attacking somebody is never okay, and is not Christ-like. Was the FMCUSA informed of the Hatmakers doctrinal change before it was publically announced on the internet? He told the prostitute to sin no more. Jesus does say if you love me you will keep my commands. Thanks for those two references for healthy faith/church/religion. thanks, Yes, and you should NEVER chase them with a whip. And theyre not always wrong. Huge fan of the underdog. Is BH on staff at ANC in any paid or unpaid position? It was also the official position of ANC. And if we encourage people to treat each other as brothers and sisters- simply look at any of the latest sitcoms or a series on Amazon or Netflix brothers and sisters divide, manipulate, lie, hurt and outwit each other. Does the pushing some people out of Gods Grace, shaming especially the most historically vulnerable, BRING people to faith, into a relationship with the Loving God? Look, its not easy Im sure for those trying to deal with this. 1,832 were here. My only comment is that this pack attack syndrome is alive and well in the Baptist Association of NSW. Put me off the internet for awhile, Ill tell ya.). All of us know in our soul when somethings wrong. I understand the point and process of biblical feedback. Not only is it a revisioned and repurposed music venue, it is also home to Austin New Church, a variety of 12-step programs & support groups, an award winning after school care program, and a progressive and inclusive Latino faith community. Clearly, the time they went public it is public. He encouraged the person to stop sinningmaybe because of His love for people, knowing that sin hurts the personnot because Jesus was focused on condemning sin. And wall building and ceremonial ejections are classic signs of unhealthy religion. Let them be the fire and one day, there will be nothing left to burn. As a pastor I realize that people in churches are now being taught the meaning of the Bible mainly on-line, through sermons, blogs, tv shows, and books, probably more than personal dialogue on Sunday mornings or in small groups, or over coffee with me or other leaders, whose ministries are disciple-making. I think we should go one layer deeper, where is the accountability of the Jens and the Robs? Anyone who writes a damning or imperious or condescending comment on their blog is only showing they have no such concern for the person Approach them directly; raise your concerns respectfully; where appropriate and reasonable, invite a third party into the discussion. I cant imagine how this approach would lead a person down the wrong path. Shes a heretic! I had a woman tell me just today that she prayed and prayed and God did not take away her lesbianism. These people should NOT be leaders in teaching other Christians. We wont argue anyone into Kingdom of God. (Matt. Sorry but Jesus said nothing about a man and a woman only, as a matter of you require a man and a woman to make a marriage, no gays allowed they were ASKING him about DIVORCE, and how a man could give a woman a letter and divorce her. JM reports that membership at ANC has decreased by approximately 40% in four months. Start treating your sisters and brothers like sisters and brothers. This is a quote from the article. If you want to stay in the fold, youd best be subordinately silent. And how could the writer possibly individually approach all Christians with a message he feels is important? Seems so simple but we fail so often. In my view, heresy is anything that keeps someone from falling into the arms of Jesus and His grace. Some people just have a vile hatred of all things Old Testament. David I am so truly, deeply sorry to read your story. http://bible.com/114/mrk.10.6-9.nkjv. Then yes, to say an act is not a sin (that really is) is saying we dont need Jesus to wash away that sin. Was the author referencing Jen as a wounded wolf? Of course homosexuality us wrong-its everywhere in the Bible. Brian Austin Green Amid Split From Megan Fox Celebrates Father's Day With His Sons. We need a new class in seminary and Bible schools: Communication 102 Using public media wisely examples from the Gospels and the Epistles. If it is sin, theological self-justification is an affront to the cross. Lots of talk of RELIGION-not FAITH We are all sinners, in need of Christs help every day, and the church should be helping people OUT of sin, whatever that sin is (including but not only just homosexuality) by prayer and loving guidance. And then there are the oft-cited examples of Pauls implicit endorsement of slavery and the reduced role/view of women. Removing our measures; esp comparable measures to others While we certainly have what we think is an awesome "church" gathering on Sunday, it might be more accurate to describe Austin New Church as a network of faith communities. Great food for thought. p.s. Austin New Church is located in Austin, Texas. Online. How do we go about that privately if the person does not respond to you? I think its important, when considering Matt 18s instruction, to keep in mind how Jesus treated gentiles and tax collectors. I dont know the answer, but Jesus was public in his condemnation plenty of times too. But the start of this topic was about error in teaching. I know lots of sincere believers who practice infant baptism. Im not saying we should ignore theology that seems to be pushing the boundaries of orthodoxy, but it seems there should be a more gentle attitude when engaging or pushing back on beliefs which concern us. View Event Website . 1BN-General. BUILD COMMUNITY. I am sure she is a nice lady but you can not say something that is not biblical and then reiterate it and then think that people who are biblical in what what they believe will stand with you. . Step back and have some one on one time with God because.let he who has no sin cast the first stone and when people do this and run her down you are TURNING PEOPLE AWAY FROM GOD!!! In your pursuit of eternal life, have you sold all your possessions and given them to the poor and if not, how do you justify that? conceived & written by Patrick Hillcinematography & editing by Dave and Sarah Kemper of Cloud Craft Studiosproduced by ANC Creativesfeaturing Patrick Hill, S A journey through ANC's first in-house art gallery, "Anticipating What Already Is." Man, the irony. God so loved the world, that means everything in it including sinners, god loves you. The demon gods demanded it, though. Seems like the apostle Paul was referring to Austin New Church, when he dictated the words of Romans 16:17-18. But those who claim his nameIm not even sure I want to be identified with them anymore. It is never correct to say any sin is okay. This isnt great, Mike, and soooo important. 7:30 pm Primary Purpose Group - Online Only. In empathy with both the Pro & Anti rhetoric about Personalities in Leadership, this smacks a bit of ideological differences of political alignment. At the very least she deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. Thank you for being my intellectual superior and calling me out on that. Ive had to distance myself from several in the Christian community where I live following character assassination and some harassment. Earlier I mentioned the Presbyterians. After all, its one of the Ten Commandments. Home Blog Farewell Jen Hatmaker: the brutality of unhealthy religion. I think most people on the other side do not want to intentionally be mean or attacking. That doesnt mean that it isnt a sin when you take the entire Bible into consideration. 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